Jr. or II?
In my experience, the use of the term II generally indicates a son who has been named after a family member other than their father, such as a grandfather or an uncle. It is also sometimes used to identify the second male in a line of three with that name, although in that case Junior is usually the preferred term. As to whether it is required or not, I would tend to believe that it isn't. Terms such as Junior, II, III, etc. came into use to distinguish between two family members with the same name, generally implying that these family members are all still living. I believe in the case of little Jacob Miles Burnum, since the ancestor in question is five generations back in the family tree, it is really a matter of personal preference - the II being a formal way to indicate that there was a first, but not required since the great, great grandfather is long deceased.
I'm not an expert in naming etiquette, however, so here's what others have to say on the subject:
From Behind the Name - "Junior is used to distinguish a son with the same name as his father. The following conditions apply:
- The Junior must be a son of the father, not a grandson.
- The names must be exactly the same, including the middle name.
- The father must still be living.
'II' is used whenever any close relative, including for example a grandfather or a great-uncle, shares the same name as the child."
Of course, there are also many who argue whether people move up the ladder as family members die i.e. Junior becomes Senior when the father dies, and III becomes Junior. Some, such as Miss Manners, say that yes, everyone does move up a notch [Martin, Judith. Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior. Warner Books (1982)] , while others insist that your formal name, including the suffix, does not change. But that's a discussion for another day...
Do you have a comment or preference on the subject? Click on "comments" below and tell us what you think!
Comments
See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffix_(name)
As to “moving up” — I would suggest against this. I have a friend who carries the suffix “IV” (4th). This is what appears on his legal documents, etc. His father was “III” and now deceased, and the two previous are also deceased, so my friend, if he were to “move up”, would be the 1st. That wouldn’t seem quite right, would it? There are some with the suffix of Jr. who don’t wish to be known as that any longer, and that is a matter of personal choice — if they don’t care for the system, they likely didn’t name a child after themselves. (You might take a cue from monarchs who take a suffix if they use the same name as a previous monarch.)
The link to Wikipedia above: you need to copy and paste into browser — the URL includes that whole line, including the parentheses around the word (name).
If everone moves up like that,then how
does their past records change?
Do we have to get the names on the
headstones changed for past generations
Personally I dont think past Aunts,Uncles,Cousins,Grandparents &
GGrandparents
It is my understanding that in modern times, the Suffix “Sr.” “Jr.” “II” “III” etc. are part of a person’s legal name. As such, the name cannot legally be changed without (I believe) a court order. This process likely varies, depending on what state (or country) you live in.
Genealogy speaking … it would be quite confusing if one were to “move up.” I have five Charles in one of my branches — I have them figured because I gave them Sr., Jr., III, IV, and V. I’ve seen many mistakes by other genealogists, sometimes the III is listed as Sr., other times the V is listed as Jr. My vote would be to keep the original name.
I think using the name would be a fine way to honor the ancestor,but the fact that there are others in the line who could also use this name,would make it improper to use the ” II “.
Does any one know what a “Jr. II” is? How can one be a junior and the second at the same time? I saw this today on the Red Cross website, when registering they ask for a suffix and they have “jr II” listed as an option. What the hell is it?
I dunno. Sometimes you just have to let it roll off the tongue and see which sounds best. I mean, “Bubba II” just doesn’t sound right!
“Jr.” has often been used in 18th & 19th centuries to distinguish two unrelated people living in the same locale so they would not be mixed up by the people and authorities.
I know a friend, a FEMALE, who was named Jr. Was this just a fluke or is that allowed? It does make sense if you think of it, exact same names, same household.
Any thoughts?
DAMIEN I think JR II is used in this fashion. I’m Mike my son would be Mike JR his son would be Mike JR II. I believe because he’s the second person to be called JR. Some would say he’s the III. I could strongly argue it this way. You see I’m The original Mike and my Son is the original Mike JR his son will be the second one to be called Mike Jr… I think…lol
Linda,
In working for a 30’s-40’s format radio station in Florida, I came across lots of published articles about the greats from that era. Both Frank and Nancy Sinatra were discussed from time to time, along with their children, who were listed as Frank Jr., Nancy Jr. and Tina.
Well, I am a “Jr.” and I’ve studied these suffixes many times. The answers I find are never consistent.
However, I’ve never, before today, found a single reference to a person changing his suffix, or “moving up” as you call it. This “moving up”, as posted here, is entirely incorrect.
In reply to Raymond, it does not take a court order to add a suffix on the end of it. When my son was born I became a Sr. I changed all my legal documents (license, SS card, etc) without the need of a court order. Anyone who does this better change all documents and credit cards or there could be issues. I ran into a problem when I delayed changing my SS card and the DMV had a fit.
Jr. is when a son shares One of his father’s name. eg Howard William Forbes (Father) - Howard Benjamen Forbes Jr. (son).
ii is when the son shares all of his father’s name eg Howard William Forbes (Father) - Howard William Forbes ii. (son). The third Happens Only if the ii (second) gives His son the exact name and the iii would be the ii’s son with the exact name and so on. ANY other persons want to give their son the exact name as their grand or uncle or whoever is just another Howard (in this case)