Exploring Genealogy
with
Special
Guest
Amy
Johnson Crow
Sponsored
by the
National Genealogical Society Learning Center
Transcript of Chat - 9 May, 2001
| <genealogyADM> | First of all I would like to welcome all of you to my chat room - especially, the newcomers :-) |
| <genealogyADM> | And I would like to thank Amy for being our guest tonight |
| <genealogyADM> | And the National Genealogical Society Learning Center for sponsoring this wonderful chat series |
| <genealogyADM> | John, would you like to introduce Amy and say a few words? |
| <NGSJohn> | Yes, thanks Kimberly |
| <NGSJohn> | On behalf of the National Genealogical Society I want to thank each of you for participating in the third online NGS Virtual Lecture. This series of lectures is sponsored by the National Genealogical Society Learning Center. I also want to give a word of thanks to Kimberly Powell for offering her help AND expertise in putting this lecture series together. |
| <NGSJohn> | Fourth in the series |
| <NGSJohn> | I owe special thanks to our presenter this evening, Amy Johnson Crow. Amy is a professional genealogist specializing in Ohio records and research. She is a past editor of the Ohio Civil War Genealogy Journal, recording secretary of the Ohio Genealogical Society and chairperson of First Families of Ohio. She is will be giving several presentations next week at the NGS Conference in the States, to be held in Portland Oregon. |
| <NGSJohn> | It is a special privilege to welcome Amy to tonight's NGS Online Lecture. Amy, we appreciate your taking on this online chat one week before the NGS national conference. |
| <NGSJohn> | Amy it's all yours and thanks! |
| <AmyCrow> | Thanks! |
| <AmyCrow> | I would like to thank John for inviting me to be your guest this evening. Thanks also to Kimberly for her help in setting everything up and to Cyndi for her help. |
| <AmyCrow> | And thanks to the National Genealogical Society in instituting these virtual lectures. |
| <AmyCrow> | Ohio is the 17th state in the Union and home to many of our ancestors. |
| <AmyCrow> | It was an early gateway to the west, having such trails as the National Road and Zane's Trace in addition to the Ohio River. |
| <AmyCrow> | Those of us with Ohio ancestors are fortunate in many regards. |
| <AmyCrow> | Ohio has a quite liberal open records policy. With the exception of adoptees' original birth records and some state hospital records, almost everything else is open. |
| <AmyCrow> | We are also fortunate in the number of records available, particularly early records. Birth and death records began in 1867; marriages began with the creation of each county. |
| <AmyCrow> | Birth and death records can be found in the county probate court from 1867-1908. Modern certificates (like the ones we use today), began in December 1908. |
| <AmyCrow> | Modern birth certificates (post-1908) can be found in the local health department or at the State Department of Vital Statistics. |
| <AmyCrow> | Modern death certificates (post-1908) can be found in the local health department. Also, the state's copy from 1908 through 1944 are at the Ohio Historical Society in Columbus. The state's copy from 1945 to present are at the State Department of Vital Statistics. |
| <AmyCrow> | Marriage records, dating from the creation of the county, are found in the county probate court. The state also has a copy from 1949 to the present. |
| <AmyCrow> | Land was plentiful and cheap - making it a major factor in migration to Ohio. Land records are found in the County Recorder's office. |
| <AmyCrow> | Some of you may be familiar with the Bureau of Land Management's website at http://www.glorecords.blm.gov |
| <AmyCrow> | It has an online index to the land patents - the first purchasers of land from the Federal government. |
| <AmyCrow> | Keep in mind, that so far, it does NOT include credit entries. This was allowed through 1820 and accounted for the vast majority of purchases in Ohio through that time. |
| <AmyCrow> | Ohio is like most states in that the majority of the records we need are at the county level - wills, deeds, taxes, etc. |
| <AmyCrow> | So what do you do when you have an ancestor in Iowa and the census says that he was born in Ohio in 1852? How do you determine which of the 88 counties his family was in? |
| <AmyCrow> | Unless you're working with a VERY unusual surname, you probably shouldn't immediately jump to the 1860 census in Ohio, looking for all the families that have an 8-year-old son with that name. |
| <AmyCrow> | Do your research in Iowa first. Uncover all the resources you can there - census, land, probate, marriage, death, county histories, etc. - and see if you can narrow down the county in Ohio. |
| <AmyCrow> | You may also need to research the ancestors in Iowa to see where they came from - they may have migrated together. |
| <AmyCrow> | Research the ancestor's neighbors in Iowa... |
| <AmyCrow> | This is a good strategy anytime you need to move from one state back to another. |
| <AmyCrow> | Ohio researchers are also fortunate in the amount of published material that is available. |
| <AmyCrow> | The Ohio Genealogical Society (OGS) is the largest state genealogical society in the nation and publishes three quarterlies in addition to a growing number of books. |
| <AmyCrow> | (The quarterlies being The Report, Ohio Records & Pioneer Families and the Ohio Civil War Genealogy Journal.) |
| <AmyCrow> | OGS has 100 Chapters. Almost all of them have newsletters with source materials. Some have also published an incredible number of books. |
| <AmyCrow> | You can visit the OGS website, which includes a listing of all the OGS Chapters, at www.ogs.org. |
| <AmyCrow> | People with early Ohio ancestors may find that some of their research has already been done. OGS sponsors First Families of Ohio - a lineage society for descendants of people who resided in Ohio by the end of 1820. |
| <AmyCrow> | Many OGS Chapters have First Families or Pioneer Family programs in their counties. The year of residency for these programs varies from county to county. |
| <AmyCrow> | I could go on all evening about the various types of records available in Ohio, along with research strategies. |
| <AmyCrow> | Many of these records are discussed in the online lecture materials for this chat. |
| <AmyCrow> | So let's open it up to your questions. |
| <genealogyADM> | Sandee - you're up first :) |
| <sandee> | Amy, I have found my GGGgrandfather in the 1850 and 1860 census |
| <sandee> | he is listed in the Wayne County Poineers and First Settlers |
| <sandee> | by Ben Douglas. I can NOT find his death record |
| &l UnkyCrow> | Death records didn't start in Ohio until 1867... |
| <AmyCrow> | And for a period of years, not all deaths were recorded like they should have been. |
| <sandee> | he was with his family in the census up until this time and then in 1870 his wife was listed separately |
| <sandee> | so finding a death record is impossible then |
| <AmyCrow> | Not necessarily. |
| <AmyCrow> | You may not find a civil death record, but you might find a church death record. |
| <sandee> | What type of information is this 1st settlers and Pioneers telling me? |
| <AmyCrow> | His probate papers may list a date of death. At the very least it would narrow down his date of death. |
| <AmyCrow> | I'm not familiar with Wayne County's program. |
| <sandee> | it has him listed in Green Twp as 1862 Treasurer James GRAY |
| <sandee> | so i look for probate records ?? |
| <AmyCrow> | You may want to contact the Wayne County Chapter of OGS to see what they have in that file. |
| <sandee> | also has him listed in 1865 as Treras. |
| <AmyCrow> | Yes, I would suggest looking for probate records. Those would be in the Wayne County Probate Court (presuming that's where he died) |
| <AmyCrow> | Does that help? |
| <sandee> | o.k. will go from there and see where I get |
| <sandee> | yes, very much Thank you so much |
| <genealogyADM> | Guest14 - you're up next! |
| <Guest14> | How do I find where my Strathmann ancestors came to Ohio from? I first found them on the 1860 Ohio census. They were also in Dayton city directories for a number of years.He also moved every year, but the 1860 census lists him as having real property. I have not found a death certificate for him, and he disappeared from the city directory in 1900. |
| <AmyCrow> | Good luck! You may also want to try cemetery records. They can be very useful! |
| <AmyCrow> | Look in every record you can find him in. His first purchase of land MAY list a prior place of residence. |
| <AmyCrow> | Also, was he in the Civil War? If so, his pension records may list his place of birth. |
| <AmyCrow> | Look at the people living around him. Where were they from? They may have migrated together. |
| <Guest14> | I've looked in deed records for a 20 + year time frame, and haven't found anything. |
| <AmyCrow> | You may want to ""piggy-back"" on one of them -- especially if there are neighbors with unusual last names. |
| <Guest14> | I'll check that. He was also listed as a jeweler. |
| <AmyCrow> | You may want to look at church records. Since he was a jeweler, try looking for any biographical directories of jewelers. |
| <Guest14> | Thanks! |
| <AmyCrow> | You're welcome! |
| <genealogyADM> | Unk - your turn |
| <UnkHIram> | My question is a little odd |
| <UnkHIram> | I got an email from a gentlemen that wanted to know if the Ohio Gen Society would be interested in Photocopies of some Patents issued to one of his ancestors promoting him to LT Both from 1835 in the Ohio Militia |
| <UnkHIram> | Dats it (GRIN) |
| <AmyCrow> | I would image that they would be. I'd suggest he contact OGS directly. Their e-mail address is ogs@ogs.org. |
| <UnkHIram> | Thanks I will pass that along to him |
| <genealogyADM> | Becky - your turn :) |
| <BeckyHOST> | Amy, I know you said that the land was plentiful and cheap contributing to migrations........would Ohio land also offered as a "payment" for past military service? |
| <AmyCrow> | Ohio herself didn't offer land as bounty, but... |
| <AmyCrow> | Virginia used its claim in Ohio (the Virginia Military District) to pay off its bounty to her Revolutionary War veterans. |
| <AmyCrow> | Also, the US Military District was set aside for Congress to pay bounties, but very few veterans took advantage of this. |
| <BeckyHOST> | that's good to know.....never would have thought of Virginia involvement |
| <AmyCrow> | More than half of the claims in the USMD were made by just 22 people. Lots of land speculation. |
| <BeckyHOST> | where could I learn more about the US Military District? |
| <BeckyHOST> | oh wow! |
| <AmyCrow> | The Virginia Military District is in southwest Ohio and is the only metes & bounds survey in Ohio. |
| <AmyCrow> | The USMD is in eastern central Ohio.... |
| <AmyCrow> | The best book for Ohio land surveys is called ""Ohio Lands,"" published by the Auditor of State... |
| <AmyCrow> | And is available online for free at http://www.auditor.state.oh.us then click on 'Ohio Lands Book' |
| <BeckyHOST> | you're too good to us Amy....thanks for the leads! |
| <AmyCrow> | My pleasure! Next question. |
| <cyndihow> | What did I tell you folks? We're very LUCKY to have Amy with us tonight! |
| <AmyCrow> | <blush> |
| <BeckyHOST> | I second the motion! :) |
| <genealogyADM> | Sirjawn - it's your turn |
| <Sirjawn> | Hi, I have a grandfather buried in a cemetery in Pike County. but don't know |
| <Sirjawn> | where he came from. Died in 1822. Rumor has it he came from Maryland. |
| <Sirjawn> | How can I prove it.??? |
| <AmyCrow> | I'd try looking first at land records. Many early settlers purchased their land in Ohio before moving there. |
| <AmyCrow> | The deed would likely give his place of residence. |
| <AmyCrow> | Also, look at his neighbors and see where they came from. Our ancestors did not live in a vacuum. |
| <AmyCrow> | He may have migrated with them. |
| <Sirjawn> | Does the name Howard have any special significance iin the |
| <AmyCrow> | Also, be certain to research ALL of his children, not just your direct line. |
| <Sirjawn> | state of Ohio??? |
| <AmyCrow> | I can't think of any special significance offhand. |
| <AmyCrow> | By researching all of his children, you may pick up on a clue that will lead you back to his place of origin. |
| <AmyCrow> | Next question. |
| <genealogyADM> | Jerrymat - your turn :) |
| <jerrymat> | How were birth records handled round 1832 in Franklin Cty? Can't locate GGrandfather record of birth in 1832 or death in abt 1880, any ideas? |
| <AmyCrow> | Ohio didn't keep birth records until 1867. Your best hope of finding an actual birth record for that time period would be with a church. |
| <AmyCrow> | Deaths by 1880 were being recorded fairly well. If you can't find him in Franklin Co, I'd suggest looking in surrounding counties. |
| <AmyCrow> | I know that some deaths in Madison Township, Franklin Co were recorded in Fairfield Co. |
| <jerrymat> | What where the other sources that my have existed? Church records were negative? |
| <AmyCrow> | Church records would have been your best option. Newspapers didn't typically report births then. |
| <AmyCrow> | It is possible that you'll never find a specific birth record for your ancestor. |
| <AmyCrow> | What are you hoping to find with the birth record? |
| <jerrymat> | This is probably a dead end that I will have to live with. Thanks very much!!! |
| <AmyCrow> | If you were hoping to find the parents, I'd suggest looking in probate, both the estates and possibly guardianships. |
| <jerrymat> | I need to tie him back to my earlier grandfather or forward to my grandfather. He is in the middle. |
| <AmyCrow> | I'd start with probate, making sure to look for any guardianship records, then move to land records. |
| <jerrymat> | I know tons about his father (?) and is son but I can't document the tie. |
| <AmyCrow> | You may also want to look at chancery court records. It was part of the common pleas court. |
| <AmyCrow> | It handled matters of equity -- partitions of land, disputed wills, etc. |
| <AmyCrow> | Next question. |
| <diopter> | My GGGrandfather Otho Pennington 1836 Belmont Co. has three possible fathers. The 1850 census lists him under Richard. His death certificate shows John. Also there is some evidence for Jesse (Richard's brother) who died at an early age and he then lived with Richard and thus on the 1850 census. Any suggestions on sorting this out? |
| <AmyCrow> | Research all of them <g> |
| <AmyCrow> | Seriously, you'll need to find out as much as you can about all three possible fathers. |
| <AmyCrow> | If Jesse died early, he may have left an estate. There may also be guardianship records. |
| <AmyCrow> | Guardians were involved even if the mother was still living. |
| <diopter> | Where would I find them? |
| <AmyCrow> | Probate court and/or the common pleas court. |
| <AmyCrow> | Remember two things... |
| <AmyCrow> | 1. the 1850 census doesn't list relationships of the people in the household. |
| <AmyCrow> | 2. the info on the death certificate is only as good as the knowledge of the informant. |
| <AmyCrow> | That's why you'll have to research all three possibilities. |
| <AmyCrow> | Does that help at all? |
| <diopter> | Death certificate information was by one of his sons. |
| <diopter> | Thanks for your help, I'll go from there. |
| <AmyCrow> | The son may or may not have known the grandfather, especially if it turns out that his father died young and he was actually raised by an uncle. |
| <Eagle> | I have a Probate paper-Testimony to Supply Omitted Birth Record 1902. My grandfather was born in 1900. Why would this paper have been gotten? Would a birth not have been recorded when it happened? Could it have been to name the father? From all I can find, the father was not involved at all in the life of my grandfather. And of course it is one of those-"we don't talk about its" we all have. My mom didn't even know that her grandfather married another and had a family until I started digging up old bones. |
| <AmyCrow> | A birth may not have been recorded for any number of reasons. |
| <AmyCrow> | The parents and/or doctor may never have gotten around to going to the courthouse to record it. |
| <AmyCrow> | Or the record may have been lost. |
| <Eagle> | lost by the records department or by the parents? |
| <AmyCrow> | The probate court. The parents didn't actually get a copy unless they requested one. |
| <AmyCrow> | And if they needed a copy later, the probate court would have it on file (presuming they hadn't lost it to begin with). |
| <AmyCrow> | You may want to look at the records of the county probate court where the paper you have came from. |
| <AmyCrow> | They may have more records which MAY explain why they needed to record this birth two years after the fact. |
| <Eagle> | ok thanks |
| <genealogyADM> | u-boo - your turn :) |
| <u-boo107> | grandfather was listed as marshall of west cleveland could this have been anything to do with the lakes |
| <AmyCrow> | It may have, though I would think it would be more like a sheriff or constable. |
| <u-boo107> | There are no records of that or West Cleveland |
| <AmyCrow> | I wish I had a better answer for you. Maybe a good county history from that time period could shed some light on it. |
| <u-boo107> | He died in office in 1876 |
| <u-boo107> | thanks |
| <AmyCrow> | If he died in office, chances are fairly good that he'd have an obituary. Maybe it has some info. |
| <AmyCrow> | Next question. |
| <genealogyADM> | Becky - your turn |
| <BeckyHOST> | at what point did Ohio start keeping adoption records of some sort? (rough estimate?) |
| <AmyCrow> | Good question. |
| <AmyCrow> | There have always been adoptions, though many of the early ones were informal. |
| <AmyCrow> | They are supposed to be closed, though people adopted before 1964 (I believe that to be the year)... |
| <AmyCrow> | can petition for their original birth record. |
| <AmyCrow> | People adopted after that have to go through a registration process. |
| <BeckyHOST> | would any sort of record be likely to have been kept in the 1800s? |
| <AmyCrow> | Possibly. If the adoption was formalized, it would have been through the probate court or the common pleas court. |
| <BeckyHOST> | thanks again! |
| <AmyCrow> | Many of the early adoptions are kind of hidden in the index. You should look under both names (birth & adoptive). |
| <BeckyHOST> | :) |
| <AmyCrow> | Also look in the index under "adoption" or "child." |
| <genealogyADM> | Your turn - Ellieann :) |
| <Ellieann> | Need help with g grandfather. From grandfather's 1909 birth certificate I know his age, occupation, and he was born in Ohio. He is listed in 1909-1910 city directory. From 1911-1914 g grandmother is in the city directory as his widow. Can't find birth, marriage, or death record on him. |
| <AmyCrow> | Have you tried looking for any probate records? |
| <AmyCrow> | Have you found him in the 1910 census? |
| <Ellieann> | I have looked for census info, he is not listed. I have checked the Cleveland area for birth and death. |
| <Ellieann> | I also can't find any record of marriage. |
| <AmyCrow> | That is a tricky time period for deaths, as they were changing from the ledger style in the probate court... |
| <AmyCrow> | to the certificates we now use. Have you looked for his death only in Cleveland or... |
| <Ellieann> | He is not on the 1910 census |
| <AmyCrow> | have you also looked for the state's copy (which would be at the Ohio Historical Society)? |
| <Ellieann> | He is not listed there |
Chat Transcript continued on next page...
