Exploring Genealogy
with
Special
Guest
Cyndi
Howells
Sponsored
by the
National Genealogical Society Learning Center
Transcript of Chat - 7 February, 2001
| genealogyADM | OK - I'm going to go turn on moderation now and leave you in John Humphrey's capable hands |
| genealogyADM | John is the head of the Learning Center at the National Genealogical Society and this series of chats was his brilliant idea :) |
| NGSJohn | On behalf of the National Genealogical Society I want to thank each of you for participating in the first online NGS Virtual Lecture. This series of lectures is sponsored by the National Genealogical Society Learning Center. |
| NGSJohn | I also want to give a word of thanks to Kimberly Powell for offering her help AND expertise in putting this lecture series together. |
| NGSJohn | I also owe special thanks to our presenter this evening, Cyndi Howells. As most of you know she is THE webmaster of one of the most popular genealogy sites online, Cyndi’s List of Genealogy Sites on the Internet. |
| NGSJohn | She is on the Board of Directors of NGS, she the author of several best-selling books about genealogy. She lectures frequently at national, state and local conferences. And, I am proud to say she is a dear friend. |
| NGSJohn | Cyndi Thanks! Its all yours |
| Cyndi Howells | John - thank you for the very kind introduction! I'm proud to call you a friend and co-conspirator in the online chat lecture series |
| Cyndi Howells | This
evening's topic is: The
Internet, Genealogy & You : Questions
& Answers About Using the Most Powerful Tool in Your Research
Toolbox. |
| Cyndi Howells | I have done numerous interviews and done many Q&A sessions after lectures over the past few years |
| Cyndi Howells | One of the biggest misconceptions people have about me and what I might tell them is in regard to the Internet. |
| Cyndi Howells | I think most people think that I will give them the secret to how to do ALL of their research online. Or tell them the secret to where all the GOOD STUFF is hidden online. |
| Cyndi Howells | Instead, I end up telling them that they cannot start with the Internet. I tell them to get out of their computer chair and go offline to start their research. |
| Cyndi Howells | This always seems to surprise the newbies, particularly the reporters. |
| Cyndi Howells | The reason for this (for those of you who are new to research) is that you cannot find everything you need online. Each family is different and each set of records you need to document your family is different. And not all records are found online. |
| Cyndi Howells | So first, I need you all to adjust your thinking about the Internet. Quit thinking of it as the answer to all your research problems. Quit thinking that the Internet has everything you will ever need. |
| Cyndi Howells | Instead, think of the Internet as just another research tool in your toolbox. |
| Cyndi Howells | Your genealogical toolbox should contain: libraries, LDS Family History Centers, your local gen. and hist. societies, archives, museums, courthouses, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | The Internet is another one of those tools. |
| Cyndi Howells | The thing that is unique about the Internet is that it is the newest tool and the most POWERFUL tool we have. |
| Cyndi Howells | The Internet provides you with an online meeting place, an online classroom and online reference material. |
| Cyndi Howells | The Internet makes looking for your ancestors a bit quicker, perhaps a bit less expensive than in the past. |
| Cyndi Howells | But overall you still have to do research the same way you always have --- locate primary documents and records specific to events in your own ancestors lives, in order to prove where and when they lived. |
| Cyndi Howells | You still begin with yourself and work backward. You still look for all possible references and records for each person. |
| Cyndi Howells | What I'm trying to say is that the Internet should be used in conjunction with the other tools, not *instead* of the other tools. |
| Cyndi Howells | What I find is that people are so excited about the Internet and they hear so much of the hype surrounding its use, that they skip some of the careful processes we need to follow. |
| Cyndi Howells | For tonight's talk, I want to do a Q&A about the use of the Internet, and applying it to specific research problems you might have. |
| Cyndi Howells | So, I came up with the syllabus material on the page I referred to before |
| Cyndi Howells | I came up with this: Ten Things You Should Do (That You Probably Aren't Doing Already) |
| Cyndi Howells | 1. Learn the ins and outs of the options and features in your e-mail and web browser software program(s). What aren't you using that might help speed up your progress online? |
| Cyndi Howells | Are you all using your software to its fullest potential? |
| Cyndi Howells | Did you know that you can set up filters in your e-mail to help you filter the incoming e-mail? |
| Cyndi Howells | Did you know that you can open up several web browser windows all at one time. Kind of like having more than one book open on your desktop. |
| Cyndi Howells | Have you explored all the options and features available to you in your software? If not, do that first. Make this tool do what you want it to do. |
| Cyndi Howells | 2. Pre-write your genealogical queries and questions about your brick walls. Have them ready to fire off when opportunity comes calling. |
| Cyndi Howells | I have a series of pre-written e-mail messages all ready to go. One for each surname I work on. |
| Cyndi Howells | When I potential cousin writes, or when I find an e-mail address for a potential cousin, I can send the message without putting much extra work into it. |
| Cyndi Howells | You can copy & paste information directly from your genealogy software program into the e-mail so that you don't have to re-type data. |
| Cyndi Howells | Remember -- your computer isn't just a glorified typewriter. Use the Copy & Paste function as often as possible. |
| Cyndi Howells | 3. Learn how mailing lists work - what they are about, how to subscribe, how to post messages, how to unsubscribe. |
| Cyndi Howells | There are more than 20,000 genealogy mailing lists at RootsWeb, plus countless others on other servers. |
| Cyndi Howells | The FamilySearch site also allows you to create your own mailing lists on the fly. |
| Cyndi Howells | Start with John Fuller's comprehensive mailing list site for full details. |
| Cyndi Howells | The mailing lists are online society meetings, virtually live e-mail conversations about specific genealogical topics. |
| Cyndi Howells | They are great places to learn, to ask and to meet others researching the same places and people. |
| Cyndi Howells | I could keep going over each of my 10 points, step by step, but I would like to get to the Q&A. Please take time to look at my list and let me know if you want me to clarify any of the 10 points. |
| Cyndi Howells | Last bit of my lecture before I step off my soapbox --- don't trust everything you find online without following up on it yourself. Look for source citations and documentation on all bits of data. |
| Cyndi Howells | When in doubt -- research it yourself. |
| Cyndi Howells | OK Kimberly -- ready for the Q&A |
| genealogyADM | Remember - to send a question, just type *page into the message window and then enter your question in the little box which pops up |
| genealogyADM | The first question is from Rikki - and isn't about the Internet, per se |
| genealogyADM | From Rikki: Hi Cyndi, I just wanted to touch base on the "heir hoaxes" of the 20's. I would like to know the best course to take to prove them. And might there be *some* useful information in some of the information that might be found on them? |
| Cyndi Howells | Rikki - a lot has been written about the various hoaxes. You can find articles in past issues of the NGS Quarterly (available on CD-Rom) You can also find info about them in a few online articles. |
| Cyndi Howells | Look on Cyndi's List under "Myths, Hoaxes and Scams" |
| Cyndi Howells | I haven't dealt with any of them myself, so am unsure if there is any useful information in following up on them. |
| genealogyADM | From Mayfly: What is a FamilySearch "mailing list on the fly?" |
| Cyndi Howells | Mayfly -- go to the FamilySearch.org web site, then follow the links to "Collaborate with others" |
| Cyndi Howells | You can create a mailing list quickly by following their instructions. |
| Cyndi Howells | You can make it a custom list for a specific genealogy brick wall you are working on. |
| Cyndi Howells | For example, I can go there now and create a mailing list for: WALTERHOUSE, Philip Benjamin and then give it a brief description with his birthdate, place, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | The list is instantly created -- "on the fly" and instantly available for others to start to use. |
| Cyndi Howells | Then anyone who is interested can subscribe to the list and you can begin conversations via e-mail about that specific topic. |
| Mayfly | Thanks, Cyndi--I wasn't aware of it. |
| genealogyADM | From Sage: Cyndi, how do I contact a specific town in Germany? |
| Cyndi Howells | Sage -- what do you mean by "contact?" |
| Sage | A resource center |
| Cyndi Howells | Sage -- a great beginning spot online for German research is the German Genealogy Home Page. |
| Sage | Thanks |
| Cyndi Howells | This breaks down your German research by locality, even by old names and new names for areas in what has been Germany at various times in recent history. |
| Cyndi Howells | Read their FAQ (frequently asked questions) and info on how to locate and contact records offices in Germany. They even have form letters already written in German. |
| Cyndi Howells | Of course, you may also find many of the records you need by looking through the FHL catalog online, then ordering the microfilm copies via your local Family History Center. |
| Cyndi Howells | You will most likely need to read German. |
| Cyndi Howells | Does that help? |
| Sage | Yes, thanks |
| Cyndi Howells | BTW -- when I say "FHL" I am referring to the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. |
| Cyndi Howells | Good luck Sage! |
| genealogyADM | From JShivers: Tips for securing known books related to your family that are out of print ? |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- this is one area where we can thank the Internet for being here! You have several options |
| Cyndi Howells | There are many Used/Rare book search services available online. Check out that section at the bottom of my Books page |
| Cyndi Howells | Try Powells bookstore and others. |
| Cyndi Howells | A friend of mine, Elissa Powell of Pittsburgh, has had great success in using eBay for used books and family materials. |
| Cyndi Howells | And my husband, Mark, uses Amazon.com for its book search service. |
| JShivers | So far i have driven 4000 miles to view/copy |
| Cyndi Howells | Unfortunately he is successful at it. And he has memorized our Visa card number. |
| genealogyADM | LOL Cyndi! |
| Cyndi Howells | Yikes! Quit driving. Try the online services. I believe that there is also a mailing list for used books. |
| JShivers | obscure out of date/print books seem impossible |
| Cyndi Howells | Will have to check that out to be sure I didn't dream that up. |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- also try your local library for Inter-library loan. |
| Cyndi Howells | But first Powells, Amazon and eBay, among many others. |
| JShivers | They seem to by hidden from public view |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- you might also try this -- create your own web page and post your "most wanted" book list. |
| JShivers | i learn from family members then race to see the book, because i have been unsuccessful in locating |
| Cyndi Howells | Make it a public billboard of sorts. |
| Cyndi Howells | Good luck to you! |
| JShivers | I have the website Cyndi, but will consider the Most wanted book list. |
| genealogyADM | Mailing List for Used Books :) |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- make sure you give it a unique page name then submit to all genealogy mailing lists and to search engines. |
| Cyndi Howells | Thanks for the URL Kimberly! |
| genealogyADM | From Joe: Hi Cyndi. I've been a subscriber so one of the major genealogy services for about six months now. I double check the various databases regularly and I find more and more duplication of records. Some are people resubmitting the same gedcoms. Others are duplicate census records--obviously the same records. Where do you see this going? How can these services deal with duplication? |
| Cyndi Howells | Joe -- you bring up one of the most talked about issue right now. |
| Cyndi Howells | The proliferation of data -- both good and bad data -- online. |
| Cyndi Howells | Basically, technology is now our friend (yeah, Internet and computers) and technology is now the bane of our genealogical existence (boo, Internet and computers). |
| Cyndi Howells | We have always had this problem in genealogy -- people passing on the same data via family group sheets, etc. Sometimes with errors and sometimes incomplete. |
| Cyndi Howells | However, technology makes it possible for us to do this much easier and much more rapidly than ever before. |
| Cyndi Howells | I can send each of you one GEDCOM file (with false data) by e-mail tonight. If you each send it to two friends and they send it to two friends, etc. you see the nightmare we deal with. |
| Cyndi Howells | If all those people repeatedly submit that data to things like the Ancestry World Tree or the Ancestral File, etc. we make the problem even more far-reaching. |
| Joe | The problem I see is not as much bad information, as you say, each person needs to verify for themselves. I'm more concerned about finding the same John Smith, submitted 10 times from the same person. Or so-called "new" databases that just duplicate information that's already there. |
| Cyndi Howells | I don't know how we can deal with it now (in the short term), but think that it is a long-term issue. We need to 1) educate ourselves on how to do research properly, citing sources, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | 2) educate others, in a friendly, positive manner, whenever possible. |
| Cyndi Howells | 3) Work out a solution on how to make technology correct this problem -- databases that self-check for duplication. |
| Cyndi Howells | RootsWeb has taken the first step in doing this with their "post-ems" or sticky note idea. |
| Cyndi Howells | When you go to their WorldConnect database you can leave behind a post-em to indicate you found an error, or you have something more to say on the topic. |
| Joe | thanks. |
| Cyndi Howells | Joe -- Yes, the other issue is the same person is distributing their data everywhere they possibly can, scattering those breadcrumbs far and wide, hoping to bring in the cousins. |
| Cyndi Howells | General rule of thumb -- in any of those lineage linked databases that are built by user contribution, you should use them as a very rough outline for clues. |
| Cyndi Howells | Don't rely on them heavily. Just when you have hit a brick wall. Personally -- I would use them as a last resort. |
| Cyndi Howells | You should first concentrate on learning "how" to research properly. Then concentrate on locating records for your ancestors. |
| Cyndi Howells | When you don't know where else to go, use those sorts of databases to start contacting possible long-lost cousins. |
| Joe | I've found some GREAT info. Found relatively close cousins (pardon the pun)--that I never could have found 15 years ago when I started this. So I guess we just need to take the good with the bad. |
| Cyndi Howells | Again, personally -- I wouldn't contribute to them myself. I would do as I have done and just create my own personal web site for my genealogical research. One place for my data and its ALL mine. |
| Cyndi Howells | I can update it, I can control it. |
| Cyndi Howells | Joe -- exactly -- there are good points and bad. Depends on where you are in your research. |
| Cyndi Howells | If you are new, learn the ropes first. |
| Cyndi Howells | Unfortunately many who are new to genealogy start with those databases, which means they unknowingly start with some false info and end up wasting some of their time. |
| genealogyADM | FROM dca: how are mailing lists different from message boards? |
| Cyndi Howells | dca -- you subscribe to mailing lists via e-mail. They are free to subscribe to. You receive messages all throughout the day, focusing on one research topic. |
| Cyndi Howells | Message boards are available through a web site. Visit a site and you find a form that you can fill out with your question, or post replies to the message board using the same form. |
| Cyndi Howells | The questions and answers appear in a threaded outline so you can follow the conversation from start to finish. |
| Cyndi Howells | I like the mailing lists because they are actively forced upon me via e-mail. With Message Boards I have to remember to go visit and read. My memory is awful. |
| genealogyADM | One thing I like about my site's message board is that you can sign up to receive an email anytime there is a message posted to a thread which interests you :) |
| Cyndi Howells | Kimberly -- the best of both worlds then! |
| Cyndi Howells | Wow - quite a crowd. |
| genealogyADM | From JShivers: Should I post my working "gedfile" even though they have incomplete data? |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- number one rule -- you will NEVER be "done" with your genealogy. :-) |
| genealogyADM | And follow-up question from JShivers: Overcoming a less than co-operative Previous researcher who seems to disapprove of "Working copy Gedfile" but will not help from their supply of facts to settle the argument. |
| Cyndi Howells | You should post your research now, even if only partially complete. |
| Cyndi Howells | Let me give you an example |
| JShivers | AS a 20hr a day researcher who is actively tracking clues , i am uncovering hundreds of "Undocumented family lines" |
| Cyndi Howells | Mark has a 2nd-great Uncle that always fascinated him. |
| Cyndi Howells | All he had to start with was a photo. He wasn't sure who this man was. |
| Cyndi Howells | We did some research at the National Army Museum in London and determined his rank, unit, etc. in the 16th Queens Own Lancers. |
| JShivers | without my posting of these new incomplete families i may not have been as lucky finding new clues and be as far as I am. |
| Cyndi Howells | We did historical research on the regiment and tracked down some parish records on the microfilm from the FHL. |
| Cyndi Howells | However, when Mark tried to order military records from the UK for Charles he wasn't able to. He was told that he had to prove that this man was dead and also prove that he was a direct descendant. He couldn't do either. |
| Cyndi Howells | In the meantime, Mark posted his partial work on Charles online at the URL above. |
| Cyndi Howells | Since he first posted that story he has continually updated the data there, adding pictures, data, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | 2 years ago he was contacted by Angela Aris-Fisher. |
| Cyndi Howells | She found the site online through a search engine. Turns out she is the ONLY living descendant of this man. His granddaughter. |
| Cyndi Howells | She is in her 60's, has no children and now has Mark as her only surviving family member. She isn't a genealogist, but she has willingly helped Mark. |
| Cyndi Howells | She could prove Charles was dead and she is the descendant. So she ordered his military papers and other records. AND, Mark will end up with all of Charles' military heirlooms. |
| Cyndi Howells | All this because he posted a "partial" bit of research -- a work in progress -- on his website. |
| Cyndi Howells | I hope that story inspires each of you to do the same. |
| Cyndi Howells | We will never be done. We need to post what we know when we can. |
| Cyndi Howells | However, we should be sure to label all our work appropriately. Make sure you note that it is a work in progress. |
| Cyndi Howells | Note where you have documentation to prove your facts, and note where your "facts" are actually educated guesses on your part. |
| Cyndi Howells | Indicate whenever data is not proven, and when it is merely family lore. |
| Cyndi Howells | JShiver -- does that help? |
| JShivers | sorta. |
| genealogyADM | FROM Mickie: Where does one go to locate information on ancestors who were adopted back in the late 1800's. Only knowledge of this person is the state they were born and state where they died. Nothing else available. This is my grandfather. |
| Cyndi Howells | Mickie - not real up on adoption records in that time period. |
| Cyndi Howells | I can say that some people who claim to have been adopted weren't necessarily legally or officially adopted. |
| Mickie | there is nothing to be found on adoption except current adoptions |
| Cyndi Howells | In some cases, children were just taken into homes and referred to adopted. |
| Cyndi Howells | This happened in my grandfather's family. |
| Mickie | that could be the case here, not sure. |
| Cyndi Howells | A mother of 10 died and the children were farmed out to live with other families. Aunt Rosalie was always the "adopted" sister, but when I investigated I found out that she wasn't ever really adopted. |
| Mickie | I understand what you are saying. Thank you for help |
| Cyndi Howells | Do you know if this person had a name change after adoption? |
| Mickie | No idea |
| Cyndi Howells | If this was the sort of adoption as in my family, you might find the answer by tracing families and neighbors in groups. Rosalie's family lived in the same area as mine. |
| Cyndi Howells | Track them through the census and you see this easily. |
| Cyndi Howells | I have two categories on CL that might help you -- Adoption, Orphans. |
| Mickie | I've started the census <G> looooong process <G> |
| Cyndi Howells | The Orphans page has many links to Orphan Trains info. |
| Cyndi Howells | Good for you on the census research. Long, but worthwhile. Trust me. |
| Cyndi Howells | Just keep in mind that you shouldn't get stuck on the terminology we use today and assume it means the same thing back then. |
| Mickie | will make note of Orphan train |
| Cyndi Howells | "Foster" and "Adoption" and "step" could all be the same thing. |
| Cyndi Howells | Or could just refer to a kid who came to work and live on your family's farm. |
| Cyndi Howells | Good luck! |
| Mickie | am beginning to realize that . Thank you |
| genealogyADM | FROM Karen: I am wondering what is the best way to use the internet to determine the identity of the folk in the very old and of course unlabeled family photos would be. |
| Cyndi Howells | Karen - there are many people who are publishing such pictures on their personal web sites. |
| Cyndi Howells | You'll find examples of this on Cyndi's List under Photos and under "Lost and Found" |
| Cyndi Howells | Sort of a billboard for your brick walls. |
| Cyndi Howells | Also, if you have a vague inkling of what family groups the photos might come from, you could post onto appropriate mailing lists. |
| Cyndi Howells | Put the photos online on a web page, with any sort of data you *can* supply. |
| Karen | does it help to look for the photographer? it seems they would probably have left but few clues themselves. |
| Cyndi Howells | Then, if you assume it is from the WADSWORTH family or the FULLER family from Elkhart County, Indiana you can post messages in several places, advertising the photos and the web site address for them. |
| Cyndi Howells | (hold on re: the photographer) For example, go to the mailing list site by John Fuller. Look for the surname mailing list for WADSWORTH and the list for FULLER |
| Cyndi Howells | subscribe to the lists, then post your message. |
| Cyndi Howells | Do the same for mailing lists for Indiana, for Elkhart County, and for surrounding counties. Subscribe, then post your message asking people to look at and identify your photos. |
| Cyndi Howells | Then go to the USGenWeb site for Elkhart County and for Indiana. Find their message boards and post the same message there. |
| Cyndi Howells | Of course, you are ALL doing what I indicated earlier -- write the message just once, then use it over and over and over again to save yourself time. |
| Cyndi Howells | Now, as to the photographer. You might investigate to see if the photo studio is still in business. If so, you could inquire about old records they might have. |
| Cyndi Howells | You could also contact the local historical society in the area in which the photographer had their business. |
| Cyndi Howells | There might also be records found in archives and museums . |
| Cyndi Howells | I hope that gets you pointed in the right direction. (I could have made a "focussed" joke there, couldn't I?) |
| genealogyADM | There are also a lot of great articles with tips on dating photos with clues such as clothing styles, photo types, etc. It might help you to at least figure out what generation of a family you may be looking at |
| genealogyADM | FROM squirty: How would I find orphanages in Wa. in the early 1900's? |
| Karen | That sounds good, I'll give it a try. I have been scanning old photos, but not the unidentified ones because I didn't know what to do with them. |
| Cyndi Howells | Squirty -- start with the USGenWeb pages for the counties in Washington you are interested in. |
| Cyndi Howells | The RootsWeb Guide online has an article about Adoptions & Orphans: |
| squirty | would there be indexes available? |
| Cyndi Howells | Squirty - I'm not sure. Depends on the area. |
| Cyndi Howells | Washington became a state just before the turn of the century, so our records begin there too. |
| squirty | I'll give it a try--thanks Cyndi |
| Cyndi Howells | You might look at the state archives links from my Washington page as well. |
| Cyndi Howells | I want to add more orphanage links to my own Orphans page: |
| Cyndi Howells | Just haven't had the spare time. I have to quit sitting around watching soap operas all day. |
| genealogyADM | FROM John: Cyndi, how do you see genealogy societies benefiting from the internet and chat rooms in particular? |
| Cyndi Howells | John -- I truly believe that the Internet was created for genealogy and genealogists. |
| Cyndi Howells | I think that it is awfully nice of us to let the rest of the world use it for other things as well. |
| Cyndi Howells | Serious answer now coming.....In the beginning |
| Cyndi Howells | most societies were concerned that the Internet was going to have an adverse impact on their membership |
| Cyndi Howells | that people would quit buying publications, would quit coming to seminars and meetings. |
| Cyndi Howells | In fact, lately whenever turnout has been low I have heard that the Internet is to blame. |
| Cyndi Howells | Personally, I think there might be a slight lull because of the Internet, but I don't think that will continue in the long-run. People will come to realize that they can't get everything they need here. |
| Cyndi Howells | That they still need to go to seminars, libraries, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | Instead, I feel that societies need to make the most of this powerful research and outreach tool, just as genealogists are doing. |
| Cyndi Howells | Societies need to use web sites the same way they use newsletters and quarterlies. They need to think of a web site as an electronic version of their already existing publications. |
| Cyndi Howells | The web sites should be inviting and should contain educational material and should be updated frequently. |
| Cyndi Howells | They should encourage genealogists to get out into the real world and go to libraries, meetings, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | The mailing lists and chat rooms are perfect places for societies to communicate and educate. |
| genealogyADM | I know that personally I have joined more societies since the advent of the Internet because it gives me more of a chance to interact with ones which are far away. Ones where I can't make the meetings in person. |
| Cyndi Howells | Hopefully we will all feel that we've done just that tonight with this chat. |
| Cyndi Howells | Focussed on a topic and then talked about it the same way we would if we all got together at a physical genealogy meeting. |
| NGSJohn | And it gives the society a change to go out and help society members with their research problems |
| Cyndi Howells | Kimberly - I agree. Most people find out about societies via the Internet -- having never known about them before. |
| Cyndi Howells | Since I put up the web site for our own local society our membership has increased. |
| Cyndi Howells | That's right John. |
| Cyndi Howells | Where we meet once a month for our local group, we can continue our discussions or coordinate our functions and projects via e-mail, mailing lists and message boards. |
| genealogyADM | Plus you can feel like a contributing member by participating in mailing lists, chats etc as you said |
| Cyndi Howells | I find that overall the web and e-mail enhance the activities of a society. |
| NGSJohn | From the perspective of a society with a national audience, this forum is an incredible way to reach out to our membership |
| Cyndi Howells | Societies just need to incorporate this into the every day routine. |
| NGSJohn | hey and it is also a lot more fun working from home |
| genealogyADM | I had to drag a local society I belong to kicking and screaming onto the Internet! |
| Cyndi Howells | Kimberly - as far as participation, we see people participating in chat rooms and e-mail that wouldn't EVER stand up and participate in a face-to-face meeting. |
| genealogyADM | I'm their Webmaster so they now don't have a choice <g> |
| Cyndi Howells | Kimberly -- perhaps you and I are twins. Same story here. |
| genealogyADM | And it gives me a way to contribute to a society which is located 600 miles away |
| Cyndi Howells | Join a society in an area that interests you. Volunteer to help via e-mail. The world has shrunk. |
| NGSJohn | Cyndi, where do you see online research going, more data bases or images of original records? |
| Cyndi Howells | John -- Yes and yes. <g> |
| Cyndi Howells | I think we will see both. The volunteers and societies with limited budgets will still transcribe records and put them into databases. |
| Cyndi Howells | The commercial entities with the big bucks will digitize images and put them online (no one else could afford to). |
| NGSJohn | at NGS we are working on getting our Bible records online |
| genealogyADM | FROM Sage: Cyndi, a question on medical records. Our former doctor has died and files belong to his estate, is there any reason we should not ask for a complete copy of them. Don't they actually belong to us? |
| Cyndi Howells | Sage --- No, a doctor's records belong to the doctor. |
| Cyndi Howells | Yes, they might detail you and your illnessess/body, etc. but they belong to him. |
| Cyndi Howells | him/her. |
| Sage | Do you think it would be rude to inquire? |
| Cyndi Howells | Sage - it never hurts to ask. |
| Cyndi Howells | As long as you ask nicely and don't make assumptions or demands. |
| Sage | He has been dead over 10 years so figure it would not hurt his widow |
| Cyndi Howells | That is one area where we genealogists get a bit over the line. Often we "demand" records or access to records because we feel an ownership over them -- after all, they are OUR family members! |
| Cyndi Howells | We need to learn to temper that a bit and show manners. |
| genealogyADM | FROM Jeanne: Cyndi: Do u know of a good site for English parish registers - a central site with some extracts and transcripts? |
| Cyndi Howells | John -- Bible records at NGS -- new or old project? |
| Sage | I would never want to offend as I know how it can hurt as have had experience on that line myself |
| Cyndi Howells | Sage -- I meant all that as a general tip for everyone, not specifically for you. I hope I didn't offend. |
| Cyndi Howells | Jeanne -- Visit my page for England. I have more than 1,352 links there. |
| Cyndi Howells | I'm asking my own personal English guru for a ref.....hold on.... |
| Cyndi Howells | Here you go: |
| Jeanne | Thank you Cyndi |
| Cyndi Howells | Here you go - the FreeREG Project. "The FreeREG Project's objective is to provide free Internet searches of baptism, marriage, and burial records, which have been transcribed from parish and non-conformist church registers in the UK. " |
| Cyndi Howells | Jeanne - Mark (my hubby) has been doing most of my English updates lately on the site. I'm beginning to lose track of what I have and don't have. |
| Cyndi Howells | Jeanne- also always go to the GENUKI project for the latest and best info. |
| genealogyADM | I have a question for you Cyndi - How do you feel about laws in most states which limit access to vital records? |
| Jeanne | Thanks. |
| genealogyADM | And the other extreme (ie Texas) where recent vital records are freely available on the Internet |
| Cyndi Howells | Kimberly -- as a genealogist I am appalled that I can't have access to ALL records 24 hours a day, for free. |
| genealogyADM | Except that they just took down their birth records because they may have aided in the identification of an adoption |
| Cyndi Howells | As a somewhat normal person, I understand the need for privacy and regulation. Unfortunately some people will take advantage of freely accessible information. |
| genealogyADM | Where do you think the line should be drawn? |
| Cyndi Howells | (BTW -- I was being slightly sarcastic when I said "appalled...." but forgot to add the <G>) |
| genealogyADM | I figured <g> |
| Cyndi Howells | I think that we genealogists need to keep in mind that there are reasons for the laws to be in place. In some cases the laws are a bit over the top and should be eased up a bit. |
| genealogyADM | Like not being allowed access to death records? |
| Cyndi Howells | I would think that following the privacy rules we follow with the U.S. Census would be acceptable. Nothing after 72 years. |
| Cyndi Howells | Birth and death records for the past 100 years would seem fitting. |
| Cyndi Howells | You hear of people assuming identities of children who died young, etc. If the records were harder to obtain, we wouldn't run into that as often. |
| genealogyADM | FROM bill99: Question: I'm now at a point in my research where the vital records end (ie death cert.) due to state laws not on the books (like Ohio 1867), what is my next "focus"? Loved your talk at Gentech 2001!!! |
| Cyndi Howells | Bill - thank you! Which talk? (hopefully not the second one where my projector didn't work). |
| bill99 | no the projector worked, |
| Cyndi Howells | After you exhaust vital records, you begin following families through census, tax, land and probate records. |
| Cyndi Howells | Bill - thank goodness! |
| Cyndi Howells | Ohio, 1867 --- could you have a Civil War veteran to track? |
| bill99 | i've heard Dollarhide talk about land records |
| Cyndi Howells | If so, you might look into military and pension records for him |
| Cyndi Howells | You know what it gets down to? |
| bill99 | no civil war vets I'm aware of |
| Cyndi Howells | "Show me the money!" |
| bill99 | yep, $$$. |
| Cyndi Howells | We keep good records when $$$ are involved. |
| bill99 | and probate? |
| Cyndi Howells | Tax records, land records will track the movement of people and the sale of land from one family member to another. |
| bill99 | how do I start that mountain? |
| Cyndi Howells | Probate -- who did you leave your money to? |
| bill99 | is there a priority, land probate? or first then second? |
| Cyndi Howells | Go to FamilySearch.org and search the FHL catalog for the county of interest and see what they have microfilmed for probate, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | Census in conjunction with the others. |
| Cyndi Howells | Probate will generally lead you to the land. |
| Cyndi Howells | Remember you are always working backward in time --- death, marriage, birth |
| bill99 | I see. Great that's for the direction |
| Cyndi Howells | somewhere in between you buy land and pay taxes. |
| Cyndi Howells | Bill -- look for possible CW vets too. |
| bill99 | OK |
| Cyndi Howells | Ohio had a gazillion soldiers who served. |
| bill99 | right. |
| Cyndi Howells | An article I wrote. |
| Cyndi Howells | Good luck! |
| genealogyADM | FROM Joe: earlier you talked about posting personal web pages. Once I get my page up and running, how do I get it listed on the search engines? |
| Cyndi Howells | Joe -- see my online page |
| Cyndi Howells | Cyndi's Genealogy Home Page Construction Kit |
| Cyndi Howells | Toward the end I point you to several online resources for advertising your new site. |
| Cyndi Howells | Basically you visit every search engine you can find and follow their instructions/forms on how to submit to them. |
| Cyndi Howells | It encourage their spiders/robots to visit your site ASAP. |
| Cyndi Howells | Otherwise, you sit and wait for them to find you. |
| Cyndi Howells | Don't use one of those "pay to submit to 100 search engines' services. You can do it yourself for free if you are diligent. |
| genealogyADM | FROM JShivers: I could join all the Pay services and never gain the information that i have gathered using my techniques, what benefits do i gain , and which services are "Most bang for the buck" |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- I get asked that question all the time. |
| Cyndi Howells | It will depend on your own personal research. How long have you been researching? |
| Cyndi Howells | Have you already exhausted every other possible route? |
| JShivers | 18 years |
| Cyndi Howells | Have you looked in every book, on every bit of microfilm? |
| JShivers | slim deatils |
| Cyndi Howells | Have you used all free online sources? |
| JShivers | been there |
| Cyndi Howells | Have you finally hit a brick wall? |
| JShivers | yes |
| Cyndi Howells | If you have and you have hit the desperation point, then you might decide to use a pay for use service. |
| JShivers | full circle, i have researched all Wives and came back to same point |
| Cyndi Howells | Then you have to educate yourself on how they work. and what they feature. |
| Cyndi Howells | Do they update frequently and give you new things to view? |
| JShivers | I have used the free-peek options and they seem empty. |
| Cyndi Howells | Early on most of the databases were small, obsure bits of data. (i.e. The Smithfield Twp. Census of Blacksmiths Who Lived in Blue Houses). |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- I think you might be answering your own question. Use the "take a look at what might be here' option. Get a feel for what you think might interest you. |
| JShivers | I am following up on work that was done 50 years previously ending up in the same brick wall |
| Cyndi Howells | It might happen that you *need* that particular Blacksmith census -- then it is a gold mine for you. For me, it wouldn't be. |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers - unfortunately that is where many long time genealogists are. |
| Cyndi Howells | In that case, explore others options. |
| Cyndi Howells | As we discussed earlier, publish a web site. |
| genealogyADM | I think you will also find that your local FHC will have much more than any online pay-for-use service |
| Cyndi Howells | Start a mailing list, start message boards. |
| genealogyADM | Though not quite as accessible ;-) |
| Cyndi Howells | Get others involved in your research efforts. Start your own online family association to work on the brick wall together. |
| NGSJohn | and start using records to get indirect evidence |
| JShivers | I have live chat servers, moderate 20+ mailing lists |
| Cyndi Howells | JShivers -- OK, next get out of the house. Hit the FHC and library. Start thinking around your family -- neighbors, clusters of people from the same area or the same church or ethnic group. |
| Cyndi Howells | Good luck to you! |
| genealogyADM | FROM Shatys: I have a friend who discovered she was adopted by reading a family history book published by one of her cousins. How much and what type of discretion should we use we our own records? |
| Cyndi Howells | Time for two more questions. Then I have to feed my monsters. |
| Cyndi Howells | Shatys --- what a horrible way for your friend to learn this. |
| Cyndi Howells | We all need to remember and respect the privacy of others. |
| Cyndi Howells | We shouldn't publish anything that might be private information or might offend someone. |
| Cyndi Howells | Just because it is "our" family and "our" research, doesn't give us the right to hurt someone else. No matter how true the information might be. |
| Cyndi Howells | If it wasn't common knowledge that this person was adopted, the data could have been recorded, but not published and shared with others. |
| Cyndi Howells | On one hand we have to record the facts as we can document them, but we are all humans too. It is a balancing act. |
| Cyndi Howells | Did your friend handle the news OK? |
| Shatys | I think we all get caught up in how much info we have and don't always think about how it may affect someone else |
| Shatys | No, Not well at all |
| Cyndi Howells | Shatys - I agree. I'm not sure that it always happens maliciously or with ill-intent. |
| Cyndi Howells | We usually are over-zealous. |
| Cyndi Howells | But we do have a responsibility and should respect the living. |
| Cyndi Howells | I have a personal story -- my 2nd great-grandfather died in bed during "family worship" |
| Shatys | Thanks Cyndi, I just thought that was a point that should be made |
| Cyndi Howells | I think it is a funny story. I love the details. |
| genealogyADM | FROM Karen: Haven't things like random acts of genealogical kindness done a lot to further all of our research efforts? Are there other ways we should be using the internet to help our local societies |
| Cyndi Howells | However, it offends my Aunt who is embarrassed by the story. |
| Cyndi Howells | So, I removed it from my research notes that are shared with others. |
| genealogyADM | That's a precious story Cyndi |
| Cyndi Howells | I told my Aunt that I wouldn't share with others since it bothers her. |
| Cyndi Howells | But that I will share with others after she is long gone. She agreed that would be OK. |
| Shatys | So now you have put it on the internet LOL |
| Cyndi Howells | Karen -- the volunteer efforts online have helped genealogy and community a lot. |
| Cyndi Howells | USGenWeb, RAGK, GENUKI, etc. |
| Cyndi Howells | Now we all need to get our societies to merge into and meld with these groups |
| Cyndi Howells | We need to hold more scheduled chats and participate in online genealogy in order to EDUCATE, not merely share info. Education is half the battle. |
| NGSJohn | Cyndi, on behalf of NGS thanks for all your work and the help you are giving genealogists across this nation. And thank you Kimberly for hosting this event. |
| Cyndi Howells | Thanks so much for having me tonight. I enjoyed it. |
| NGSJohn | Thank you. |
| genealogyADM | Thank you so much Cyndi for all of your information! |
| genealogyADM | OK Everyone - I'm going to turn off moderation so that you can thank Cyndi personally! |
| Karen | I am living in an area none of my ancestors came from, just wondering what I can do to contribute. Thanks for the great chat. |
| Patt | Thanks Cyndi, you were great!!! |
| genealogyADM | All of you can talk now!!! |
| UnkHiram | Thanks Cyndi, another good chat |
| dm2350 | I learned a lot thanks. Is there a way to copy and paste this chat? |
| Jeanne | Thanks - it was great |
| JShivers | thanks Cyndi |
| rikki | Thanks for the Great Chat Cyndi Hope you come back soon. |
| NGSJohn | On behalf of the Society and the staff we owe you. Kimberly, again thanks. Our next chat will be on March 7, at 8 EST |
| Cyndi Howells | Karen -- the Internet allows you to help the society in that are. |
| Nancy | Thank you so much Cyndi! |
| dca | thank you |
| Shatys | Thank you so much Cyndi, wonderful information |
| squirty | Thanks Cyndi-hope to hear from you soon |
| Sage | Thank you so very much. |
| April | Thanks Cyndi for tonight and all the help available on your site |
| genealogyADM | Chat Transcript will be up tomorrow |
| Shadow | Very interesting. Thanks Cyndi. |
| Karen | can I have the photo URL again? thought I'd be able to save the whole chat, but it was gone... |
| Cyndi Howells | Thanks everyone -- you were all wonderful! |
| RoseR8634 | Thank You Cyndi for all you do to help |
| Nancy | And thanks to you Kim, if you post the transcript. I missed some of it. |
| Cyndi Howells | Karen -- the transcript will be online after Kimberly gets it ready. |
| genealogyADM | And if there are any of you newcomers who like to chat, we have chats on this site every day :) |
| Ansonette | Cyndi, you did educate and you came up with solutions to my "iffy" thoughts about Website vs. Gedcom. Thank You! |
| Cyndi Howells | Ansonette -- I'm glad! Good luck |
| UnkHiram | Cyndi, you might wanna check out my column next week , its gonna be about the GenTech Conference |
| Shatys | Cyndi, I know you did well, I have never seen Unk Hiram quiet this long LOL |
| Cyndi Howells | Thanks Unk - I will |
| UnkHiram | Your interview will be in 2 weeks |
| genealogyADM | We had him gagged Sharon! |
| Cyndi Howells | Shatys - HA! |
| Bonner33 | My thanks too! Bonner33 |
| UnkHiram | Adios and Keep Smiling |
| Cyndi Howells | Shatys -- would you believe that UnkHiram is a very quiet, soft-spoken guy in person? |
| Shatys | cyndi, No I wouldn't!!! He also tells us he is short and bald |
| genealogyADM | It sure doesn't sound that way from his columns - they crack me up! |
| Cyndi Howells | Shatys -- he had on a baseball cap. |
| Sage | Where are UNK Hiram' columns? |
| Cyndi Howells | As tall as me |
| Nancy | Careful! That describes my husband! LOL |
| Shatys | cyndi, LOL. I really enjoy him |
| UnkHiram | I heard that, LOL |
| Cyndi Howells | UnkHiram is an AOL genealogy forum staffer, also has online columns |
| Shatys | Goodnight Unk |
| Michael | certainly a large group of folk here this evening |
| UnkHiram | Adventures in Genealogy |
| Cyndi Howells | Time to go feed the boys |
| Cyndi Howells | Good night all! |
